Friday, August 04, 2006

"Your Father's House Lies In Ruins"

A Yid commenting on Tisha B'Av:

It's a machloykes between the Ramba"m and the Rayve"d if one is chaeyv koreys for going on the Har Habais (in prohibited places) in present time. While Ramba"m says yes, Rayve"d says no, and this is one of the explicit places, where he openly says, that this halocho was revealed to him (through Eliyohu haNovi or Ruach haKoydesh).

I wonder, why and how some groups of Yidden claim today that they want to go Har HaBais etc. and get angry when the regime doesn't let them. Don't they know about this issue, or they hold absolutely that the din is like the Rayve"d?

Akiva of Mystical Paths responds:

The 'frum' groups going to Har Habayit stay 'far' from the 'prohibited places'. For example, they generally (though not exclusively) stay along the inside of the retaining wall (literally on the other side of the Kotel). (Pictures and video of such a tour availabe on request.)

The question is, why are we not allowed to go to the PERMITTED places??? No, why would we IGNORE going to the most holy place on Earth, the most holy place to Judaism? Because some is permitted and some is not?

Do we throw away the cow and never eat beef because of the gid hanashe?

There are areas of Har Habayit that are prohibited. No problem, avoid them. There are areas that are questionable, disputed whether permitted or prohibited. No problem, avoid them too.

There are areas that are clearly permitted according to all opinions. There is no religious argument to be made for not being there, only political ones.

Your Father's house lies in ruins. Don't be fooled into turning a political argument in to a religious one.

17 Comments:

At August 4, 2006 at 12:58:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

Questionable areas start right after the Koysel.

 
At August 4, 2006 at 12:59:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

People go to Koysel every day. Do you call it IGNORE?

 
At August 4, 2006 at 1:10:00 PM EDT, Blogger Akiva said...

And those people stood by and watched the Waqf truck out tons of PIECES OF THE 2ND BEIS HAMIKDASH and THROW THEM IN THE GARBAGE! Pillars, columns, coins, artifacts, of the highest level of kedusah. IN THE GARBAGE.

They took BLOCKS from the 2nd Beis Hamikdash and CUT THEM IN TO STEPS for their new MOSQUE! (I've got the pictures to prove it.)

It was IGNORED by EVERYONE. Today there is a dedicated team sifting through 5% of the garbage, sitting in a landfill (why 5%, because the WAQF intentionally spread it out across many locations!)

If Har Habayit was sitting desolate, you have a debate. But you've ceded the ruins of your Father's house to a stranger!

For what? Worried the world is going to respond? Hey, those you don't want to get angry have already declared their intention to NUKE you!

 
At August 4, 2006 at 1:21:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

You vote for your support of bar yoynim? It wasn't ignored by evreyone. This is a false slander. But you should address your anger to tziyoynim who control the country and don't care about Har haBais. What do you propose? To start a riot? To kill arabs who run Wakf? To throw tziyoynim out of the land?

Give some practical ideas, instead of anger.

 
At August 4, 2006 at 2:01:00 PM EDT, Blogger Akiva said...

Fine, here's my practical suggestion, very realistic given the current on-the-ground details.

Why did the IDF rebuild and triple their protection of Kever Rochel, yet let Kever Yosef fall and be destroyed???

Because people flocked to Kever Rochel when the government even barely mentioned giving it up. But not Kever Yosef.

To change the situation on Har Habayit, just 500 people need to try to visit it, every day. Register protest if not permitted, and quietly leave.

500, every day. 1/10th of those who go to the Kotel.

Then the police would not have the NERVE to override an order from the Supreme Court (allowing) to deny visitors on Tisha B'Av.

100 people a day would make a difference, 500 would change the situation, 1000 would regain our rights to prayer on Har HaBayit.

Every day.

 
At August 4, 2006 at 2:17:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

There were some Breslovers (from shuvu bonim) who went to keyver Yoysef many times. It was in a very dangerous area. Where they permitted to risk lifes for that? This should be decied by a Rov.

And did it help to restore a protection there? Tziyoynim don't care about anyting, unless it is a threat to their regime. You can protest for as much as you want. The mafia has no [i]hispaylus[/i] from that, unless this protest is so massive, that it will be sacred to loose its graps of power.

 
At August 4, 2006 at 2:29:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

IMHO, all such problems are not resolvable, until regime of tziyoynim is at power. You can struggle with it here and there, but it will not solve anyting globally. Complaints and demonstrations to them - are no point. Because they don't care what you think. They care about what they want. Lets hope Moshiach will come sooner, than the moment when frum population in Eretz Yisroel will outnumber the society of koyfrim.

 
At August 4, 2006 at 2:46:00 PM EDT, Blogger Akiva said...

Yid - It doesn't absolve us of a practical responsibility to do what we can, to the best affect we can. You never know what the tipping point might be.

I agree protesting is a waste of time. But committed practical action is not. Neighborhoods are being built in Yerushalayim (Ateret Kohanim). As far as the Breslovers, if it was 1,000 of them, you'd see the IDF escorting them and setting up posts to protect the route.

And if safety is the only factor, then all the yidden should be in California.

As Chardal wrote very well in the past, the effort to distance itself from the very problematic Israeli government has, unfortunately, also resulting in much of the charedi population distancing themselves from anything to do with Eretz HaKodesh.

It's far beyond time to reconnect.

Otherwise, why bother to mourn and fast on Tisha B'Av? Even if the Beis HaMikdash drops down from heaven, do you think apartment blocks for people to live in will as well? And farms for the source of korbonos?

 
At August 4, 2006 at 2:52:00 PM EDT, Blogger Akiva said...

I never understand why people are so freaked out by the idea of STANDING UP and DOING something. Chabad, Breslov, and the religious nationalists only. All others think it's going to happen by just sitting and davening? (Not that that's not very important.)

The Rav of Ponevetz, HaRav Yosef Kahanaman, zt"l, rebuilt the Ponevetz yeshiva in Bnei Braq after WWII. By himself. Single handed. The last surviving member of the yeshiva (actually, 1 of 5, 4 students survived as well, he was the only facilty member).

He didn't sit and learn (well, of course he did, but not as a profession). He ran around and fund raised like a madman for 20 years.

50 years later, Ponevetz is the 3rd largest yeshiva in the world. DUE TO ONE MAN'S COMPLETELY DEDICATED EFFORTS.

It didn't drop from the sky. No millionaire walked up and handed him a giant pile of money. One man led the charge, built the foundation, engaged a group and started an effort.

B"H

 
At August 4, 2006 at 3:23:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

the effort to distance itself from the very problematic Israeli government has, unfortunately, also resulting in much of the charedi population distancing themselves from anything to do with Eretz HaKodesh.

I don't see any connection. The regime doesn't represent Eretz haKoydesh, and those who distance from regime don't distance from the land.

And about action - I agree 100%. Many are to passive. Why isn't Sanhedrin restored still? Only mizrochim seen to be interested in this idea. I would like to see Sanhedrin now. I have no idea why no serious poyskim and tzadikim work on this issue.

 
At August 4, 2006 at 3:47:00 PM EDT, Blogger ilan said...

"Chabad, Breslov, and the religious nationalists only. All others think it's going to happen by just sitting and davening? (Not that that's not very important.)"
Im hassid Breslev...YES, we think that we have to sit and pray. Nothing else.
I have a lot of stories whit my rab when i ask something he said: "do hitbodedut" and i think (and the people say to me too) "but Rab, nothing else than hitbodedut? nothing to do?" and no..the answer is no...just pray and see the ieshua from your window...
(ps: ASJ, why you put all this machoklet here? :S this is not your style...)
shabbat shalom

 
At August 4, 2006 at 3:51:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

Ilan: Can I ask who is your Rav, if you don't mind?

! א גוט שבת

 
At August 4, 2006 at 3:58:00 PM EDT, Blogger Akiva said...

"The regime doesn't represent Eretz haKoydesh, and those who distance from regime don't distance from the land."

My point wasn't that they do. There is no problem being completely disconnected from Medinat Yisroel while still being closely tied to Eretz Yisroel and Eretz HaKodesh.

But they're (generally speaking), not on the hills, not in the new towns, not spread across the land. They're tightly congregated in specific narrow areas. Does the concern of being in a place of Torah completely outweigh spreading through the land? (And what prevents going as a group, I've noticed Lakewood has done this a few times, started a new kehilla with a group of 20 'starter' families.)

 
At August 4, 2006 at 4:08:00 PM EDT, Anonymous A Yid said...

Akiva: I agree. This problem is apparent in Chutz Looretz as well. People are either scared to risk to be "new settlers", or simply don't think. But when their childern have nowhere to live after chasono they suddenly wake up.

 
At August 5, 2006 at 4:28:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Mosh said...

a Yid: Here's an article about the Sanhedrin. (You can find all arutz 7 articles on the topic if you type "sanhedrin" in their search engine.)
Tell us what you think.
http://arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=96361

 
At August 5, 2006 at 7:11:00 PM EDT, Blogger ilan said...

Yid: you can see the name of my rab and some pics of him on my blog (http://azamra.blogspot.com/2006/07/mi-rab.html) .
He is the only Breslover Rab of Argentina.
Shabua tov!

 
At August 9, 2006 at 10:16:00 AM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some comprehensive shiurim regarding visiting Har Habayis (from: http://www.vbm-torah.org/halak65.html):

1.
http://vbm-torah.org/archive/halak65/10a-halak.htm

2.
http://vbm-torah.org/archive/halak65/10b-halak.htm

3.
http://vbm-torah.org/archive/halak65/10c-halak.htm

 

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