Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh Visit To America
A Simple Jew
אַשְׂכִּילָה בְּדֶרֶךְ תָּמִים
Thursday, August 23, 2007
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Dixie Yid
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14 Comments:
Thanks for the link ASJ. It's a great opportunity for people in those cities. Does ASJ stand for, "A Swell Jew?"
-Dixie Yid
ASJ,
For those of us who live far from these places, it would be great if one or more of these presentations could be recorded. Do you know if that is planned?
I have heard that they're planning video taping all of them and the videos will be placed on the shorashim.info site. Also, there will be audio mp3 recordings as well which will be made available.
At last I see his name here - "Itamar Shwartz". For some reasons he strongly tries to hide his identity - no one whom I asked around knew his name. (Reb Gedalya Kening didn't approve of author hiding his name on his sforim).
Even though Rav Erlanger (also a big researcher of hisboydedus, but focused on Baal Shem Tov and his talmidim for this issue) also doesn't put his name on Shivo Eynaim for some reason, however on other sforim he does print his name.
Why should people do it I don't exactly understand, considering the big responsibility while publishing such kind of sforim.
(Sorry for the typo. I meant Reb Gedalya Kenig ztz"l).
I certainly can't speak about the reason for his desire to be anonymous during the first two years his seforim were out. However, regarding the propriety of doing so, all I can tell you is that he got many haskamos from gedolim, including R' Itchie Mayer Morgenstern. You can see them here:
http://bilvavi.net/content/view/12/28/
-Dixie Yid
DixieYid: R' Itchie Mayer Morgenshtern seem to have similar style to R' Itamar Shwartz. (In a sense of combining everything together). Somehow I'm not comfortable with it, even though he is a big boki in Kabolo.
What I mean - it seems they don't have a mesoyro pnimo in Nistar (in issues of hisboydedus and especially chasidic one). While they do research things, it seems they make their own things (I can't say that for sure though). In this perspective, Rav Erlanger at least admits clear cut, that he has no such oral traditions, and all he is trying to do - is his own [probable] research of hisboydedus methods of talmidey Baal Shem. This is fine for me - we need to research it. But still, somehow the feeling of "where is that mesoyro after all??!" doesn't seem to go away.
A Yid,
I hear what you're saying and if your soul is not drawn to the teachings of Tzadikim like the R' Itchie Mayer and the Bilvavi, then you should be studying and following other derochim. I would never tell you do go in a direction toward which your heart is not drawn.
However, I believe that you are incorrect factually about your assertion about the ideas in the seforim being based upon his own ideas. #1, he stated the fact that everything he says is based upon a synthesis of the sources (and not upon his own theories) explictly in the beginning of chelek 1. And #2, like I said yesterday, I know from 2 gedolim who have much more of a way to judge than me, that everything he says is firmly rooted in penimius Hatorah, and are not the products of his own mind.
-Dixie Yid
I didn't say that they create there own "yesoydoys" - they probably use known ones, as they say. What I meant, that on top of yesoydoys (mostly known and written somewhere) goes what you call "a synthesis of the sources". I would say this is the most important part, and that's where the oral mesoyro of the Nistar steps in. This is the non written part. And here one can either have a Kabolo, or speculate with his own ideas (basing them on solid yesoydoys though).
I don't say this is not always legitimate. But when it is done by towering tzadikim like Reb Noson in his Likutey Halochoys (basing on the chasidic yesoydoys of the Rebe and other chasidic/kabbalistic yesoydoys) I can rely on it comfortably. Otherwise I have a discomfort from such things, especially when they are provided "as is" and even without sources.
As I said - Rav Erlanger at least always warns, that his research is speculative, since he doesn't have the traditions which he is looking for or is trying to reconstruct.
Others not always openly admit such things. It can of course mean that someone DOES have such mesoyroys. But how do we know?
Note, that Kabolo can include both a living teacher (rebe) or a giluy (like Eliyohu haNovi and other similar things like maggidim and hasogoys). Baal Shem Tov had Achiya haShiloyni for example. However this is a "thin" area where one should be careful, since it can be a profanation very easily.
I think in the end you will trust your derech/mesorah on this and I will trust my rebbe on this. But suffice it to say, I love you man!
-Dixie Yid
DixieYid: Thanks, I love you too :)
to a yid. i must inform you that you are very underinformed about both r Itche meir and r isamar shlita, the former is was the hands on student to many many mekubalim and Rebbes. he learned for years one on one with R moishe Shatz kabolah, and since a child has held R Kivak as his Rebbe muvhak etc. So too R isamar had many discussions with the late vietepsker rebbe R yorovitz and learned with one of the rebees in shar hashamaim etc. i must be honest that i respect your hesitation and also share it. but i must say that i mould like to believe that its based on total am aratzis. what actions and facts do you think it takes to be a talmid and get a mesora? well i dont think it takes much more than devotion truth and apliction. maybe im missing the real essentials but linyoneinu the meor eiyniyim was i think by the baal shem maybe once and is called his student. we ourselves at least me are very far from truth and devotion plus ernstkeit etc. that no matter how much we hear see learn and incorperate we're at least im so far still that we imagine it must be that to become a student and to recieve a derech and mesora you have to know only one Rebbe and on top of that to literaly brake your back by him all day every day for 20 years.
well i must say that R noson was that long by his Rebbe and neither was R Chaim Vital. and as especially goes for R itche Meir cause i dont know R isamar as much, we're talking about a very large tzaddik whom even though we dont know spit i would be careful about placing doubts on someone like him before one first questions ones own clue of anything in the world of pnimius Hatorah.
again i respect your comment and relate to it very much. But its factualy not true and it shows how far not how close we are form whats coming out of them cause theyre screamin the truth. ulvai we could have just a taste.
I just expressed my concerns, since populism in such field isn't good. (A Yid).
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