Wednesday, September 10, 2008

Selichos & Nusach


Is Nusach Polin the most commonly used by chassidim? Do some chassidim use Nusach Lita?

11 Comments:

At September 10, 2008 at 8:21:00 AM EDT, Anonymous Ben Yachid said...

I have also noticed that sometimes Selichos say Nusach Ashkenaz and Nusach Sefard (not Sephardi).

Does Nusach Sefard = Nusach Polin?

 
At September 10, 2008 at 8:43:00 AM EDT, Blogger A Simple Jew said...

The Breslov Center's customs document says the following for Breslov,

"Selichos for Ashkenazim follow the Polish minhag."

 
At September 10, 2008 at 10:52:00 AM EDT, Anonymous chabakuk elisha said...

As far as I know, in Chabad they use the Russian/Lithuanian nusach (Nussach Reisen) as opposed to Ashkenaz (used by German Jews) or Nusach Poilin (which I think is said by Jews from Poland, Ukraine & Hungary). But I don’t know what nusach Litvaks use, and I am curious to find out!

It's not called Nusach Sfard, because Sfard is basically a combination of Ashkenaz and Ari Z”L / Ramak, whereas selichos is (to my knowledge) not based on those ingredients …

 
At September 10, 2008 at 2:16:00 PM EDT, Blogger Long Beach Chasid said...

Litvaks use Nusach Lita?

Artscroll.com has them all except Chabad.

http://www.artscroll.com/Categories/psl.html

 
At September 10, 2008 at 2:17:00 PM EDT, Blogger Moshe David Tokayer said...

Litvaks in Israel use the Lithuanian nusach. It's been quite a while since I've been in the U.S. for slichos but if my memory serves me correctly, in the U.S. the Poilishe nusach is used.

 
At September 10, 2008 at 2:55:00 PM EDT, Blogger Neil Harris said...

Being of Litvish descent, I'm pretty sure that "my kind" use Nusach Ashkenaz.

 
At September 10, 2008 at 5:22:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

most ashkenasim used to say nusach polin until the "Litaim" society decided to sharpen their litaut and now the yeshivot litaiot say nusach lita.

 
At September 10, 2008 at 6:33:00 PM EDT, Blogger TZ said...

Chabad Selichos are basically identical to nusach Lita, There is very little difference between nusach Lita and Nusach polin. The major differences are off course that kaddish in nusach polin is the nusach sefard kaddish, the order of the piyutim and which are used on what day differs although the piyyutim themselves are basically the same just recited in different orders and different days and that Nusach Lita always add Selichos for Children's sickness in Eretz Yisroel whereas Nusach Polin skips them usually, Nusach Lita has 3 x Ashamnu and Nusach Polin does too but many say it only once based on Arizal finally Nusach Lita's final ending after Meshiach Tzidkecha Amar LiFanacha has additional stanzas Micha said and so on, which Nusach Polin only says on erev Rosh HaShana.

I believe the ikar of selichos is to be moved to teshuva and recite the 13 middos with kavana together with the minyan so I believe if you lag behind you should skip ahead to this each time and continue the piyutim at your own pace.

 
At September 11, 2008 at 7:15:00 AM EDT, Blogger Moshe David Tokayer said...

"most ashkenasim used to say nusach polin until the "Litaim" society decided to sharpen their litaut and now the yeshivot litaiot say nusach lita."

When I was learning in Itri Yeshiva 30 years ago, we said Nusach Polin. Itri is a litivishe Yeshiva. Things may have changed

 
At October 7, 2009 at 5:58:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Deborah Shaya said...

1. It is Hashem, the King of the World, who directly provides for all of our needs. And it is to Hashem, that we pray, for our livelihood and sustenance and health. Whatever we receive in life - materially and spiritually - is given to us by Hashem.

The Malachim are the creations of Hashem.

We are not allowed to pray to ANY Malachim.

When Moshe Rabeinu prayed, he prayed to Hashem. He did not pray to any Malachim or any celestial beings. These are all the creations of Hashem.

With regard to the Selichot, and the Neilah prayer for Yom Kippur in the Ashkenazi tradition - they include direct Tefillot and requests to Malachim. Prayers to Malachim are completely forbidden, assur, and cause very great damage and harm. I emphasise that this is something very grave which needs to be rectified - speedily.

The Selichot and the Neilah Tefillah for Yom Kippur should be amended speedily, to remove all prayers and requests to Malachim.

2.There should be NO MEDIATOR between a person's tefillot and Hashem. Mediation in any form is assur and completely forbidden.

If people want to pray to anyone else, and make requests of any being other than Hakadosh Baruch Hu, they might as well join Christianity.

We pray to Hashem – at all times. If a person is insisting on praying to one of the creations of Hashem, instead of directly to the King Himself, Hashem will say to us, "You are meant to pray to ME!"

Remember that Hashem, our G-d, is a very "JEALOUS G-D" who demands "EXCLUSIVE WORSHIP." (2nd Commandment of the Asseret Hadibrot.)

Our very own tefillot, directly to Hashem are much more precious than anything else. Hashem likes to hear the prayers, tefillot, from our own mouths. Even if all we know is how to recite the first 3 letters of the Aleph Bet: Aleph, Bet, Gimmel....

 
At September 16, 2014 at 11:30:00 AM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you really believe yourself to be smarter than the ראשוני אשכנז who instituted the נוסח of the סליחות? Do you think you know הלכה better than they did? If yes, then you belong to reform movements. If not, be a bit more shy when attacking millenary traditions.

 

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