Friday, October 31, 2008

Who Are The כת שקרנים ?

In the last piece in Degel Machaneh Ephraim, Parshas Noach, who is the Degel referring to when he writes about the "the sect of liars" who wear white clothing? (הנה התורה מרמזת בכאן על כת שקרנים ומתדמים לשלומי אמוני ישראל ) ?


13 Comments:

At October 31, 2008 at 10:09:00 AM EDT, Blogger Hirshel Tzig said...

Breslovers?

 
At October 31, 2008 at 10:14:00 AM EDT, Blogger A Simple Jew said...

Hirshel: I highly doubt it.

Shivchei HaRan #3 states:

When he [Rebbe Nachman of Breslov] became bar mitzvah, his uncle, the holy Rabbi Ephraim of Sudilkov, called him and pronounced over him the verse, "Today I have given birth to you." (Tehillim 2:7). This speaks of the day a person becomes bar mitzvah, as discussed in the sacred literature. His uncle then spoke to him briefly regarding religious devotion and these words were as dear to the Rebbe as finding a great treasure.

 
At October 31, 2008 at 10:56:00 AM EDT, Blogger Long Beach Chasid said...

The Tzemach Tzedek wore white.

Is it even clear that he is refering to Yidden?

 
At October 31, 2008 at 11:14:00 AM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

maybe sabbateans?

 
At October 31, 2008 at 11:21:00 AM EDT, Blogger Joshua Kullock said...

there's an interesting paper (in Hebrew) @ http://www.lifshiz.macam.ac.il/m/pages/M0631/M0631147a.html about the "Weisse Chevrah" and the meaning of the term.
One said this "white boys" where Chassidim, another replied that they were Maskilim, and then the author goes for a third option.

I also though about sabbateans, but maybe the Degel Machaneh Efraim was talking about the Maskilim.

 
At October 31, 2008 at 2:22:00 PM EDT, Blogger Neil Harris said...

As simple as this is, maybe the reference is to the decendants (not the punk band) of Lavan?

 
At October 31, 2008 at 3:25:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe it simply means hypocrite who clothe themselves in good deeds but in reality are malicious in every way.

It's not as though we have ever been lacking in such people.

 
At November 1, 2008 at 6:16:00 PM EDT, Anonymous TZ said...

Although I cant say for sure i think anonymousis right and this refers to general hypocrites

 
At November 2, 2008 at 7:26:00 AM EST, Blogger yitz.. said...

the word כת would be a weird word choice if he simply meant (all) fakers and hypocrites.

It seems like he's referring to a specific group of people who identify themselves as a group, hence כת, sect.

 
At November 2, 2008 at 2:50:00 PM EST, Anonymous Daniel said...

In this past week's parsha (Noach) Rav Hirsch says on Gen. 10:8 "nimrod lihiot gibor" -

"Nimrod was the forerunner of the hypocrite who drapes himself in robes of piety in order to deceive the masses."
(translated by ArtScroll, I don't have the original R' Hirsch).

Seems like this is a concept spoken of elsewhere as well.

 
At November 3, 2008 at 6:16:00 AM EST, Blogger Moshe David Tokayer said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At November 3, 2008 at 6:18:00 AM EST, Blogger Moshe David Tokayer said...

The Midrash (Yalkut Hoshea 7:524) says:
ד' כתות אינם מקבלים פני השכינה, כת לצים, כת חנפים, כת שקרנים, כת מספרי לשון הרע. So it's doubtful that the Degel is referring to an identifiable group.

 
At November 13, 2008 at 10:26:00 AM EST, Blogger redsneakz said...

Many of the admorim of that time used to talk about "Satan's Hasidim." It was said that ha-satan was so upset about the successes of the Besht and the Karliner that Hashem gave him permission to send down Hasidim.

 

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