אַשְׂכִּילָה בְּדֶרֶךְ תָּמִים
posted by A Simple Jew @ 4:24 AM
I have an 87 page little book called Hebrew in Ashkenaz: a language in exile. edited by Lewis Glinert, Oxford University Press, 1993. It is not quite a chart but an academic kuntres. It describes the different dialects and the controversy surrounding pronunciation. It also compares words and how they were pronounced in the different dialects
Please, please! Use your ears! Yiddish and Yiddishkeit aren't only learned from books, but from experience. Talk to your Rebbe in Yiddish, or at least listen to his, and others that speak that way, carefully, and you'll get it!
R' Slatkin: Did you find it to be a useful or interesting read?Yitz: I wish I could, however I am not arround a lot of Yiddish speakers. Perhaps if I could improve if I got a hold of some Yiddish shiurim...
The person who would know if such exits is Dovid Hirshe Katz at the University in Vilna. He is THE expert Yiddish linguist in the world as I see it.Also check he Atlas of Yiddish Linguistics edited by Dr. Marvin Herzog.Finally the Ukraine had a tremendous number of immigrants from Lita and White Russia many of whom were Anshe Chabad like the father of the last Lubavitcher rebbe who moved there from the Vitebsk region. They continued to speak the Northern Yiddish dialect. These people and the fact that many of the Ukrainian rbbis and melamdeim were Litoim Anshe Lita (like rabbi Yerucehm Diskin son of the Mahril Diskin) influenced the way Hebrew and Yiddish were pronounceced even by native speakers, so one has to be careful in assuming anything without much cauton.
I find this whole Ukraine thing a bit troubling. Why the need to speak EXACTLY like your antecedents 100+ years ago?and if you speak like an Hungarian or Russian or Lithuanian the world would come to an end?!
I fully support you in your interest for your dialect. Amongst Yiddish speaking crowd today the general attitude is to encourage preserving original dialects and not adopting common ones (like generic Hungarish/Polish or Litvish which became two major "players" today). This is simply because other dialects are almost gone, and therefore preserving them is worthwhile. Speaking to others doesn't always help to learn a given dialect, if so few people use it! But it helps in general to learn the language.Polish/Hungarish Yiddish is prevailing in USA today, and Litvish one in Eretz Yisroel. Real Ukranish Yiddish (Podolish/Volynish) is used only by few today. Even though I've heard that in Eretz Yisroel, Litvish Yiddish was normative in Yerusholaim, and Ukrainish in Tzfas and Tveria. However it seems that the later became used less and less – you can ask someone from Tzfas about it.In general, the difference between Polish and Ukrainish dialects is, that Tzeyre is pronounced as “AY” in Polish, and as “EY” in Ukrainish. Podolisher Yiddish also uses “O” for Pasoch, i.e. saying “Shobbes” and not “Shabbes” etc. The rules for Komatz are somewhat confusing (though they are the same for Polish and Ukrainish dialects). In Ukrainish/Poylish Loshn Koydesh if it is a closed syllable, Komatz is pronounces as “O” if it is an open syllable, as “U”. (Don't think about American English sounds though, which are usually pronounced for “O” and “U” when I write “O”, “U” etc. it will be misleading and too confusing). I'm talking about Yiddish sounds. So it will be “burich” and “atu” - open syllable - u, with “oylom” (not “oylum”) - closed syllable. In Yiddish however this rule is different and I don't know if it is formalized – so the only way to get it is to ask or to hear the right pronunciation. (May be there is a rule – I don't know it). There is also more to it with different nuances (for vowels difference betwin Ukrainish, Litvish, Poylish and Hungarish) and I don't know all of them. I know one Yiddish teacher who is an expert in dialects. There is also an interesting site which collected many live recording of Yiddish speakers with different dialects from different locations. This helps a lot to learn some details:http://www.eydes.de/index/li/li.htmlhttp://www.eydes.deAs for shiurim, there are shiurim from Reb Michel Zilber (Roysh yeshiva Zvil). He speaks in Volynish Yiddish. You can get his shiurim on Mishna and Gemoro (as digital files) from “Torah Tapes” archive.
Try this Yiddish dialectical map:http://www.eydes.org/soundflash/netscape.htmI came across it some time back and blogged about it.I'd be interested in seeing your response to what friend wrote by the way.An easy fast to all!
Mottel:Thanks! By the way, why would you be interested to see my response. Isn't obvious that we just have differences of opinion. I don't think the world would come to an end. I am just interested as a matter of historical research to find out more about the dialect in Sudilkov and as such will plan to ask the Sudilkover Rebbe about it when I get the opportunity.
I'd like to understand your reasons as well - both ways of looking at the matter have their merits . . . I think there is much historical interest in the matter. That being said, I don't think their's a kuntz in davka speaking the way one's forebears did.
That being said, I don't think their's a kuntz in davka speaking the way one's forebears did.Is there a kuntz not to?-)
Hello! Thank you for your article. I’d like to try to compare it to my previous experience of learning Ukrainian through Skype on online classes. I did around ten conversations over Skype with a native speaker from http://preply.com/en/ukrainian-by-skype. And I was pretty satisfied with their Quality. I think they have a strong teaching quality, practicing their course curriculum now I can speak Ukrainian easily like a native they also provide personal tutors, but I Want to try another option.
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